Comments on: Airline Executives Grilled Over Pilot pay http://project7alpha.com/2009/08/airline-executives-grilled-pilot/ American Airlines in Burma 1942 Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:47:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Rick http://project7alpha.com/2009/08/airline-executives-grilled-pilot/comment-page-1/#comment-273 Rick Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:05:16 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=722#comment-273 Interesting story here.. http://www.nypost.com/seven/08112009/news/regionalnews/plane_pilot_got_fly_high_sign_184027.htm I had heard part of this yesterday and didn't understand it. He apparently was talking to TEB departure and was handed off to EWR approach...who he never contacted. EWR tried to raise him on their frequency and didn't make contact. This is a faulty procedure IMHO. If he was still below the shelf, he should have wanted to be on 123.05, and they should have wanted him to be also. It leads you to wonder why he diverted from procedure and radio contact so suddenly. So I think you are right...he was sight-seeing and then apparently tried to get to an assigned altitude into Class B. That's why he was climbing through 1100, I'm guessing. Interesting story here..

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08112009/news/regionalnews/plane_pilot_got_fly_high_sign_184027.htm

I had heard part of this yesterday and didn’t understand it. He apparently was talking to TEB departure and was handed off to EWR approach…who he never contacted. EWR tried to raise him on their frequency and didn’t make contact. This is a faulty procedure IMHO. If he was still below the shelf, he should have wanted to be on 123.05, and they should have wanted him to be also. It leads you to wonder why he diverted from procedure and radio contact so suddenly. So I think you are right…he was sight-seeing and then apparently tried to get to an assigned altitude into Class B. That’s why he was climbing through 1100, I’m guessing.

]]> By: Chip http://project7alpha.com/2009/08/airline-executives-grilled-pilot/comment-page-1/#comment-272 Chip Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:09:53 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=722#comment-272 Never worry about wearing out your welcome here the more comment s the merrier. That is one of the reasons I started this site. I unfortunately agree, the regulators always want to respond to the least commen denominator; ie the guy who screwed up. So, the rest of the community suffers. But it is the historical trend, Grand Canyon, East River etc. Thousands and thousands flew them safely, but a couple screwed the pooch so we all pay. Never made sense to me. Just say "Hey that guy screwed up", and move on. I think he was site seeing, no harm in that, EXCEPT! You still have to aviate, navigate and communicate. Dosn't look like any of the above was happening unfortunately. Never worry about wearing out your welcome here the more comment s the merrier. That is one of the reasons I started this site.

I unfortunately agree, the regulators always want to respond to the least commen denominator; ie the guy who screwed up. So, the rest of the community suffers. But it is the historical trend, Grand Canyon, East River etc. Thousands and thousands flew them safely, but a couple screwed the pooch so we all pay. Never made sense to me. Just say “Hey that guy screwed up”, and move on.

I think he was site seeing, no harm in that, EXCEPT! You still have to aviate, navigate and communicate. Dosn’t look like any of the above was happening unfortunately.

]]> By: Rick http://project7alpha.com/2009/08/airline-executives-grilled-pilot/comment-page-1/#comment-271 Rick Tue, 11 Aug 2009 00:39:49 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=722#comment-271 One more comment...sorry I hope I'm not wearing out my welcome...course heading from Teterboro to Ocean City is 195 degrees. The pilot of the Piper could have justified the flight down the Hudson as "direct". And that might be a defense in a potential lawsuit. Unfortunately the fact that it appears he descended to 400 ft below the GW Bridge, and was manuevering at the same time, shows this was much more than "direct" IMHO. There was more on his agenda than just getting to Ocean City. One more comment…sorry I hope I’m not wearing out my welcome…course heading from Teterboro to Ocean City is 195 degrees. The pilot of the Piper could have justified the flight down the Hudson as “direct”. And that might be a defense in a potential lawsuit. Unfortunately the fact that it appears he descended to 400 ft below the GW Bridge, and was manuevering at the same time, shows this was much more than “direct” IMHO. There was more on his agenda than just getting to Ocean City.

]]> By: Rick http://project7alpha.com/2009/08/airline-executives-grilled-pilot/comment-page-1/#comment-270 Rick Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:17:40 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=722#comment-270 I spoke to my brother who's in northern NJ and a pilot. He said RWY 1 at TEB was in use that day. Everybody he knows would have done a left turnout and cleared the class B and gone south after they were about 15 miles west of TEB. He says this piper driver probably wasn't monitoring 123.05 (we'll know that after they bring the plane up), and just importantly, he thinks the FAA will now greatly restrict that airspace the same way the restricted the East River after the Cory Lidle accident. Now you must have clearance from NY approach to get up the East River, and it'll probably end up the same for the Hudson River corridor. Too bad...pilots familiar with the area understand all the issues..apparently this fellow did not. Also, if he really was at 400 ft after clearing the GW Bridge, he wasn't legal right there. According to my brother, this guy "screwed the pooch". I spoke to my brother who’s in northern NJ and a pilot. He said RWY 1 at TEB was in use that day. Everybody he knows would have done a left turnout and cleared the class B and gone south after they were about 15 miles west of TEB. He says this piper driver probably wasn’t monitoring 123.05 (we’ll know that after they bring the plane up), and just importantly, he thinks the FAA will now greatly restrict that airspace the same way the restricted the East River after the Cory Lidle accident. Now you must have clearance from NY approach to get up the East River, and it’ll probably end up the same for the Hudson River corridor. Too bad…pilots familiar with the area understand all the issues..apparently this fellow did not. Also, if he really was at 400 ft after clearing the GW Bridge, he wasn’t legal right there. According to my brother, this guy “screwed the pooch”.

]]> By: Rick http://project7alpha.com/2009/08/airline-executives-grilled-pilot/comment-page-1/#comment-269 Rick Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:39:02 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=722#comment-269 There were also reports that another helicopter pilot radioed to this helicopter pilot that a fixed wing aircraft was closing on him. That indicates at least the helicopter pilot was probably on the right frequency....and I'm convinced he was. There were also reports that another helicopter pilot radioed to this helicopter pilot that a fixed wing aircraft was closing on him. That indicates at least the helicopter pilot was probably on the right frequency….and I’m convinced he was.

]]> By: Rick http://project7alpha.com/2009/08/airline-executives-grilled-pilot/comment-page-1/#comment-268 Rick Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:11:17 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=722#comment-268 Sorry I meant 123.05 for the Hudson River Sorry I meant 123.05 for the Hudson River

]]> By: Rick http://project7alpha.com/2009/08/airline-executives-grilled-pilot/comment-page-1/#comment-267 Rick Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:09:41 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=722#comment-267 Yes, I agree this was a failure to do a clearing turn on one of their parts. My brother is a pilot in northern NJ and I have flown with him very often. He is terrified of this area...rightly so. I note in the New York VFR Terminal Area Chart an inset on this airspace that says very clearly "HIGH DENSITY OF UNCONTROLLED HELICOPTER AND FIXED WING TRAFFIC OPERATING ON THE HUDSON AND EAST RIVER CLASS B EXCLUSSIONS. ALL AIRCRAFT SELF ANNOUNCE ON 123.075 FOR THE EAST RIVER AND 123.04 FOR THE HUDSON RIVER". I suspect at least one of those pilots failed to do that. Yes, I agree this was a failure to do a clearing turn on one of their parts. My brother is a pilot in northern NJ and I have flown with him very often. He is terrified of this area…rightly so. I note in the New York VFR Terminal Area Chart an inset on this airspace that says very clearly “HIGH DENSITY OF UNCONTROLLED HELICOPTER AND FIXED WING TRAFFIC OPERATING ON THE HUDSON AND EAST RIVER CLASS B EXCLUSSIONS. ALL AIRCRAFT SELF ANNOUNCE ON 123.075 FOR THE EAST RIVER AND 123.04 FOR THE HUDSON RIVER”.
I suspect at least one of those pilots failed to do that.

]]> By: Chip http://project7alpha.com/2009/08/airline-executives-grilled-pilot/comment-page-1/#comment-266 Chip Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:39:26 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=722#comment-266 I also agree about the importance/danger of low altitude manuvering. Most General Aviation pilots do not understand angle of attack dictaits stall NOT airspeed. I can stall an F-4 wing at 380 knots all day and fly it at 80; it is all about AOA. Very important! I will devote a post to it when I get back from Mexico. I also agree about the importance/danger of low altitude manuvering. Most General Aviation pilots do not understand angle of attack dictaits stall NOT airspeed. I can stall an F-4 wing at 380 knots all day and fly it at 80; it is all about AOA.

Very important! I will devote a post to it when I get back from Mexico.

]]> By: Chip http://project7alpha.com/2009/08/airline-executives-grilled-pilot/comment-page-1/#comment-265 Chip Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:33:56 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=722#comment-265 Rick; It appears to be a classic low wing/high wing mid-air. The fixed wing aircraft was a low wing the helicopter obviously has is best visability down. So the low winged Piper had the helicopter in a blind spot behind the wing. The helicopter, couldn't see behind/above him. It is why we do clearing turns in a VFR climbout ESPECIALLY in a high density area. Rick;
It appears to be a classic low wing/high wing mid-air. The fixed wing aircraft was a low wing the helicopter obviously has is best visability down. So the low winged Piper had the helicopter in a blind spot behind the wing. The helicopter, couldn’t see behind/above him.

It is why we do clearing turns in a VFR climbout ESPECIALLY in a high density area.

]]> By: Rick http://project7alpha.com/2009/08/airline-executives-grilled-pilot/comment-page-1/#comment-264 Rick Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:49:27 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=722#comment-264 One more comment about this event. Most common cause of accidents in GA....low altitude manuevering. The FAA had a push on this in the last 12 months. One more comment about this event. Most common cause of accidents in GA….low altitude manuevering. The FAA had a push on this in the last 12 months.

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