Comments on: Airline Safety, Fatigue and the commuter Pilot http://project7alpha.com/2009/07/airline-safety-fatigue-commuter/ American Airlines in Burma 1942 Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:47:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Rick http://project7alpha.com/2009/07/airline-safety-fatigue-commuter/comment-page-1/#comment-248 Rick Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:58:30 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=650#comment-248 And clearly, night flying aside, that cause for that crash was ground zero in your argument....fatigue...fatigue...fatigue. No other explanation for that catastrophic confusion of those two guys. And clearly, night flying aside, that cause for that crash was ground zero in your argument….fatigue…fatigue…fatigue. No other explanation for that catastrophic confusion of those two guys.

]]> By: Chip http://project7alpha.com/2009/07/airline-safety-fatigue-commuter/comment-page-1/#comment-247 Chip Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:26:19 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=650#comment-247 Yes and they were doing one of those circadian nightmare sequences. If memory serves they flew a late flight in and then sat for 4 hours or so and then the mis-hap flight. Sound advice on the radio, always easier to verify then go to a hearing. Especially if everyone has a glass of water except you! Yes and they were doing one of those circadian nightmare sequences. If memory serves they flew a late flight in and then sat for 4 hours or so and then the mis-hap flight.

Sound advice on the radio, always easier to verify then go to a hearing. Especially if everyone has a glass of water except you!

]]> By: Rick http://project7alpha.com/2009/07/airline-safety-fatigue-commuter/comment-page-1/#comment-246 Rick Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:21:25 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=650#comment-246 Lessee, here.....1 million miles on Pan Am before they went bust, and 2million miles on United. I'm sure I'm up there with a couple of others...just not a million. But the point about night flying is highlighted by several of these recent accidents where night flying was a factor, and the one that horrified me the most, was that Lexington KY wreck a couple of years ago with TWO pilots allowing themselves to be on the wrong runway. I out of Lexington a few days before that wreck, departing mid-day. The tower told me hold short of 26; then the next thing they told me was "cleared for takeoff RWY 22", without mentioning 26. I radioed back "crossing 26 for takeoff 22" so I was confirming I was crossing safely. I'm sure that flight was given the same instructions I was, but NIGHT took away their situational awareness; obviously they also hadn't looked at the heading indicator also. Anyway, it's just why another reason why I won't fly at night. Lessee, here…..1 million miles on Pan Am before they went bust, and 2million miles on United. I’m sure I’m up there with a couple of others…just not a million.
But the point about night flying is highlighted by several of these recent accidents where night flying was a factor, and the one that horrified me the most, was that Lexington KY wreck a couple of years ago with TWO pilots allowing themselves to be on the wrong runway. I out of Lexington a few days before that wreck, departing mid-day. The tower told me hold short of 26; then the next thing they told me was “cleared for takeoff RWY 22″, without mentioning 26. I radioed back “crossing 26 for takeoff 22″ so I was confirming I was crossing safely. I’m sure that flight was given the same instructions I was, but NIGHT took away their situational awareness; obviously they also hadn’t looked at the heading indicator also. Anyway, it’s just why another reason why I won’t fly at night.

]]> By: Chip http://project7alpha.com/2009/07/airline-safety-fatigue-commuter/comment-page-1/#comment-245 Chip Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:58:50 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=650#comment-245 Rick; You know the best kept secret of a true road warrior. GO EARLY! For all the reasons you listed. If a storm moves in, generally it is in the afternoon. If an airplane breaks in the AM you have all day to get on another. Here is another little secret, if your flight cancels the airlines consider your seat GONE. Yes, they will put you on another, but, with bottom priority. End of the line, not head. Yet another reason to go early. Watch the weather if a front moves in, you better be there early. If you are caught in something nasty like an ice storm? Be the first one to the closest hotel, it may be a while. Obviously you fly a lot! Good advice. Rick;
You know the best kept secret of a true road warrior. GO EARLY! For all the reasons you listed. If a storm moves in, generally it is in the afternoon. If an airplane breaks in the AM you have all day to get on another. Here is another little secret, if your flight cancels the airlines consider your seat GONE. Yes, they will put you on another, but, with bottom priority. End of the line, not head. Yet another reason to go early. Watch the weather if a front moves in, you better be there early. If you are caught in something nasty like an ice storm? Be the first one to the closest hotel, it may be a while. Obviously you fly a lot! Good advice.

]]> By: Rick http://project7alpha.com/2009/07/airline-safety-fatigue-commuter/comment-page-1/#comment-244 Rick Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:57:26 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=650#comment-244 The reality of all of this, and your point of fatigue after these long days for commuter (small c) pilots, to me is this....again...I know I maybe harp too much about this....is never, never, fly at night. period. I always take the early to mid morning flights whenever I am traveling commercially. You avoid the late day weather stack-ups, and more importantly you avoid a fatigued crew. It seems so practical to me; I don't know why this isn't a topic more discussed. The reality of all of this, and your point of fatigue after these long days for commuter (small c) pilots, to me is this….again…I know I maybe harp too much about this….is never, never, fly at night. period. I always take the early to mid morning flights whenever I am traveling commercially. You avoid the late day weather stack-ups, and more importantly you avoid a fatigued crew. It seems so practical to me; I don’t know why this isn’t a topic more discussed.

]]> By: Chip http://project7alpha.com/2009/07/airline-safety-fatigue-commuter/comment-page-1/#comment-243 Chip Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:06:27 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=650#comment-243 Rick; Actually I think it excentuates the message. That being; experience has been trumping fatigue and inexperience for years, the contracts were gutted post 911. Then the backwards march started resulting in an experience level that has been keeping the industry safe. At my airline the average age is now 50. BUT! The experience ends at the majors, because working for the Regionals is not worth it, and that is why the cracks in safety are showing there first. The other wildcard is age 65, fatigue and old is not a good combination. Rick;
Actually I think it excentuates the message. That being; experience has been trumping fatigue and inexperience for years, the contracts were gutted post 911. Then the backwards march started resulting in an experience level that has been keeping the industry safe. At my airline the average age is now 50. BUT! The experience ends at the majors, because working for the Regionals is not worth it, and that is why the cracks in safety are showing there first. The other wildcard is age 65, fatigue and old is not a good combination.

]]> By: Rick http://project7alpha.com/2009/07/airline-safety-fatigue-commuter/comment-page-1/#comment-242 Rick Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:31:54 +0000 http://www.project7alpha.com/?p=650#comment-242 Chip, Your last two posts have been excellant. They also bring back memories of what happened to Thurmun Munson, the Yankee catcher of the great 76'77'78 teams, on 3 hours of sleep and low time (6 hours) in a Cessna Citation back in 1979. It is a fascinating story. See this article, and I think you will agree. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1848528 I know it is not "on message" with your campaign to boost incomes and lower hours for commercial pilots, but it is a good object lesson for any aviator...particularly risk management for low time in type pilots. Cheers. Chip,
Your last two posts have been excellant. They also bring back memories of what happened to Thurmun Munson, the Yankee catcher of the great 76’77’78 teams, on 3 hours of sleep and low time (6 hours) in a Cessna Citation back in 1979. It is a fascinating story. See this article, and I think you will agree. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1848528
I know it is not “on message” with your campaign to boost incomes and lower hours for commercial pilots, but it is a good object lesson for any aviator…particularly risk management for low time in type pilots.
Cheers.

]]>